AILSA CHANG, HOST:
I'm shocked, but I'm not surprised. Those are the words of Brown University student Zoe Weissman. In a story in the online magazine The Cut, she says she has now lived through two mass shootings on school campuses. The first in Parkland, Florida, in 2018, when she heard gunshots and screams at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, which was right next to her middle school. On Saturday, Weissman was in her dorm at Brown University, and it happened again, making her one of at least two students at Brown who have now survived two school shootings. Elsewhere in the program, we're going to remember the victims of the Brown University shooting, but I'd like to turn now to Rob Kilfoyle to talk about the evolving safety standards on college campuses. He is president of the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. Welcome.
ROB KILFOYLE: Thank you very much, Ailsa.
CHANG: So there have been so many campus shootings over recent decades, right? Like, Virginia Tech was almost 20 years ago. And can you just explain to us how you would characterize campus security evolving since then? I mean, has it?
KILFOYLE: Yeah, it really has. I would say probably some of the more material changes that have occurred since, say, Virginia Tech or even Columbine, first and foremost, police response methods have changed. You know, it used to be police would wait for, you know, a SWAT team or a tactical team to show up before they would enter a school. And after the Columbine attack, that methodology changed. It's now first officers on scene go in, even if they're by themselves and, you know, try to neutralize the threat. So that's probably one of the significant things. But in terms of the campus environment, there's been a move towards using security technology on campus, so things like, you know, surveillance cameras, electronic access controls, emergency phones.
CHANG: I want to talk about some different pieces of what you just addressed there - first of all, the surveillance and the security cameras. You know, the videos released by law enforcement so far have not given a really clear look at the suspect in the Brown University shooting. So do you get the sense that campuses are adequately equipped to document these kinds of events when they occur so law enforcement can react appropriately?
KILFOYLE: My sense is that it's getting better. You know, there - many campuses, especially those with older buildings, are harder to retrofit with cameras. And so as technology improves with things like wireless technology and those things, that's now starting to become more prevalent.
CHANG: But how do you balance that against privacy concerns? Because I can...
KILFOYLE: Yeah.
CHANG: ...Imagine students don't want to be attending schools where they are surveilled 24/7 with thousands and thousands of cameras all the time.
KILFOYLE: That's exactly right. And probably the most challenging things that we have to deal with in campus public safety is finding that balance between, you know, being too oppressive and striking a balance with enough security. And so, with cameras, the typical thought process to them is they're not put in any private areas, right? - so things like washrooms and change rooms and dorm rooms. But they are generally placed in common areas like dining halls and libraries and cafeterias. You don't often find them in classrooms, primarily because, again, to privacy and also academic freedom.
CHANG: Exactly.
KILFOYLE: Faculty would not take kindly to having surveillance cameras in...
CHANG: And students...
KILFOYLE: And students. Yeah.
CHANG: ...Who want to interact openly and...
KILFOYLE: Yeah. That's...
CHANG: ...Share their ideas.
KILFOYLE: Exactly. That's exactly right. So it's - you know, you have to strike a balance, for sure.
CHANG: What about another balance, a balance between openness and safety? Because college campuses are not gated communities, right? These are places that we...
KILFOYLE: Correct.
CHANG: ...Like to invite the world in. Students and faculty are always coming and going. And Brown University is known for being open to the community that surrounds it. How do you strike the right balance between that openness and safety?
KILFOYLE: It's a difficult metric to sort of manage because generally, you know, campuses are open environments. We want people to come. We want to share ideas and dialogue and those things. And so that's a - it's a hard thing to do.
CHANG: Rob Kilfoyle is president of the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. Thank you very much.
KILFOYLE: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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