In this episode, hosts Brianna Lennon and Eric Fey interview their kids, then have the tables turned on them as the kids ask questions of the parents about elections and election administration.
They spoke about… lots of things really, but definitely NOT politics.
High Turnout, Wide Margins Credits:
Managing Editor: Rebecca Smith
Managing Producer: Aaron Hay
Associate Producer: Katie Quinn
Digital Producer: Mark Johnson
Transcription of the episode is as follows:
Ryan Fines: I don't feel like we're doing anything productive. I feel like we're just joking around.
Eric Fey: That's kind of what this podcast is.
[High Turnout Wide Margins Introduction]
Ryan Fines: Hello and welcome to another exciting episode of High Turnout Wide Margins. My name is Ryan Fines. I'm here in the studio today with —
Oskar Fey: Oskar Fey
Ottilie Fey: Ottie Fey
Izzy Fines: and Izzy Fines
Ryan Fines: And our hosts —
Brianna Lennon: Brianna Lennon, County Clerk of Boone County, Missouri. [laughs]
Eric Fey: Eric Fey, Director of Election St. Louis County, Missouri.
Brianna Lennon: Today we have a really fun episode because we have all of our kids here, and they're very excited to talk about — we don't know yet, so we're gonna find out. So, first I'm gonna ask Oskar and Ottie, what is it that your dad does?
Oskar Fey: Well, through my understanding, my dad counts the ballots.
Laughter
Oskar Fey: So, I guess that means that he goes through every ballot and sees if they voted democratically or republicanly. And he's on top now, I guess, it's what he's saying. So, I guess that's —
Eric Fey: Just for the record, I've never said that.
Brianna Lennon: But I think that’s an accurate description.
Laughter
Oskar Fey: He says that he's the boss.
Eric Fey: I've never said that either.
Oskar Fey: Yes, you have.
Eric Fey: Well, I do say it to you when you need to clean your room.
Ottilie Fey: I think my dad counts the ballots and has to be a great dad.
Eric Fey: All right, great. So, Ryan and Izzy — what do you think about your mom being the County Clerk?
Ryan Fines: Well, I think she just, like, she does a lot of stuff, and she argues with people and has high debates and stuff like that.
Eric Fey: Yeah. Does she ever argue with you?
Ryan Fines: Yeah.
Eric Fey: Yeah. So, she — you think she learns her skills from arguing with you when she argues with other people?
Ryan Fines: No. (Izzy Fines: Yes!)
Eric Fey: No?
Ryan Fines: I think she argued with other people before she argued with me, so she just takes that skill from there and argues with me.
Eric Fey: Yeah. What percentage of your mom's job do you think is arguing with other people, like half, 50%, 100%, somewhere in between?
Ryan Fines: 95%.
Eric Fey: 95%. I like it.
Ryan Fines: It's mostly telling, mostly arguing with people that don't like her.
Brianna Lennon: That is -— mhm — okay.
Laughter
Eric Fey: What do you think, Izzy?
Ryan Fines: That’s what you tell me!
Brianna Lennon: I know.
Eric Fey: Tell us what you think your mom's up to.
Izzy Fines: She travels.
Brianna Lennon: You gotta stop hitting the table.
Izzy Fines: She travels, and she's caring, and she's a great cuddler, and sometimes she plays Duolingo in the night.
Brianna Lennon: Is that what I do at my job?
Izzy Fines: Oh, yes! And I like her elections. Oh! She does kid elections too on election days.
Brianna Lennon: That's true. And you guys get to vote in those.
Ryan Fines: Yep. She also, she organizes a bunch of polls, (Izzy: Yeah!) and, like, she bosses around some people.
Izzy Fines: She also organizes elections
Ryan Fines: and everywhere we go, she meets somebody from work and talks to them for half an hour.
Izzy Fines: Yes, Ryan is right.
Eric Fey: Yeah, that's a big difference, because your mom has to get elected. She's like, on the ballot, so everybody around town knows her.
Ryan Fines: I went to a camp on Friday because we had the day off. [My friend] went, Ryan's mom is famous,
Oskar Fey: It’s like saying, “My father is famous.”
Brianna Lennon: He is famous. (who is?) A lot of people know him. Does it feel that way when you're around with him?
Oskar Fey: No! Not one of my friends, like, knew him before meeting me. I don't know anyone who doesn't know him that doesn't work with him.
Brianna Lennon: Do you guys learn about elections in school?
All kids: NO!
Ryan Fines: No, they strictly say, don't talk about politics.
Oskar Fey: Yeah, they say don't talk about politics.
Izzy Fines: Don’t Talk about politics.
Oskar Fey: We don't want to talk about politics because half the people in there are with, it's over half of the people, they're angry at someone, and half of them aren't or some... It's weird. So, we don't want to talk about politics in school because… that can cause a war, just like my second grade, I Survived! versus Magic Tree House [book series] war. That was the weirdest war. I don't want to go back to those dark ages.
Ryan Fines: I don't think nobody wanted, I don't think anybody wants to go back to that.
Izzy Fines: This is about voting, but it was in kindergarten. We voted about having a PJ day, where you could bring a stuffy or a movie day, where you could bring a drink and a snack and we would watch a movie.
Oskar Fey: There were very few politics like we wouldn't talk about politics in general, but we would talk about voting.
Izzy Fines: PJ and stuffy one
Ryan Fines: We would talk about politics in the past, not politics in the present.
Oskar Fey: We learned the history of politics. We learned -
Ryan Fines: American Revolution, stuff like that,
Oskar Fey: …how, why we should vote at 18 and stuff like that. But we don't learn about present day politics.
Eric Fey: Hey, Ottie, have you ever learned about any voting stuff in school? You guys ever talk about it?
Ottilie Fey: Not like in school, but like in Cub Scouts? Yeah, my dad set up a voting machine and we voted, which was really fun.
Eric Fey: Yeah, yep, you're a little under the weather today, aren't you? Yeah, you're doing okay.
Brianna Lennon: So, your dad and I can't talk about politics when we're at work, so we're doing election stuff, but we can't really talk about politics. Do you think that that seems like a conversation you could have at school? Can you talk about voting without talking about politics?
Oskar Fey: Well, that depends. I can't talk about that to my whole class, like, Hey guys, my dad can't talk about politics, but here I am talking about politics and stuff like that. But I can say to my friends, like, “Hey, I think so and so is a greater president than so and so.”
Ryan Fines: If you start, like, if you take it too loud, they're gonna be like, No, we do not talk about politics at school.
Oskar Fey: Yeah. We can't, like, say, start a mob. Like, saying that “so and so is the worst.” Yaaah!
Eric Fey: Do any of you ever go with your parents to vote?
Ottilie Fey: Yeah, yes, yes, I do.
Oskar Fey: Yes. I go with my father.
Eric Fey: You go with me to vote?
Oskar Fey: No, my mom, your mom to vote, yeah, and we also will probably see grandma there?
Eric Fey: Yeah, grandma's usually there. So, what is it like when you go with one of your parents to vote?
Izzy Fines: It's like, we can't vote, but they can, and it isn't fair.
Ryan Fines: It's quiet.
Oskar Fey: It's quiet, mostly, and sometimes they let us fill in a box or two, but most of the time,
Ryan Fines: yeah, it's their opinion.
Izzy Fines: Sometimes my dad lets me, sometimes my dad lets me put in the paper in the box.
Ryan Fines: Yeah, it's, it's, it's like our parents’ opinions, but we have, we fill in the box or something.
Eric Fey: Did you ever get to fill out part of the ballot, Ottie? Or put it in the scanner?
Ottilie Fey: Yeah.
Brianna Lennon: When you guys get older, do you think that you will want to work doing election stuff?
Izzy Fines: No, I want to be a veterinarian.
Oskar Fey: No, I want to do something where I actually get up from a chair and run around, do something… because I've been to my dad's work. Sometimes he mostly just sits in a chair, yes, and he does nothing but go like [typing motions]
Izzy Fines: my mom does that too, and it's really boring. But sometimes I get to watch shows on her phone or bring the iPad and bring my squishmallow.
Oskar Fey: It's boring. What my dad does, it seems boring, but hey, at least he's part of our community.
[High Turnout Wide Margins Midbreak]
Brianna Lennon: What questions do you have? I'm sure that you all at least can read current events and things. I know that Ryan watches —
Oskar Fey: I do sometimes.
Brianna Lennon: — some kind of news for kids.
Oskar Fey: All right, all right. I have questions for dad. Dad.
Eric Fey: Yes, son?
Oskar Fey: What do you do on that computer that you were sitting behind all day?
Eric Fey: It's a secret.
Oskar Fey: Why is it a secret?
Eric Fey: It depends. When you guys are at the office, it's usually close to an election because I'm working on the weekends. So, at that time, I'm usually doing voter registration stuff or —
Oskar Fey: Are you playing video games?
Eric Fey: — absentee ballot stuff? No, they don't let me have any video games on my computer at work. Can you believe that? When you're an adult, you don't get to do all the fun stuff all the time.
Izzy Fines: Mom, I have the same person as Oskar. What do you do at the back of that computer all day? I know you send messages sometimes, but I don't know what else you do.
Brianna Lennon: I send a lot of emails to people. When you guys come out, it's usually because you have the day off of school and so you come hang out, or because we're doing something on the weekend, but it's normally voting stuff. Sometimes I just have to be there to make sure that there's people watching the office because we're a pretty small office, so sometimes I'm there because the office has to be open, and then people come in and vote, and I help them vote.
Ottilie Fey: I have a question for my dad. Sometimes I see you doing math, so if your job requires math — why does it?
Eric Fey: Well, I don't know when you see me doing math at the office? Well, maybe, you know, we have to add up voting totals sometimes and stuff like that. So, I would say my job requires basic math. So, you gotta, you've got to learn basic math in school if you want to do the elections job.
Oskar Fey: Do you need an understanding of calculus? What do you mean by basic math? Do you mean addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, or do you mean —
Eric Fey: Percentages.
Oskar & Ryan: Calculus?
Oskar Fey: Yeah, algebra, all the way through school?
Eric Fey: The other thing, sometimes Ottie and Oskar have come with me a few times to the office — especially when it's busy before elections when we're working there on weekends, and I have to keep a close eye on them because we are — when they're opening absentee ballots at my office, we have these zip ties that they put through all the empty envelopes to make sure there are no ballots left in them, and, one time, Oskar got into the zip ties and handcuffed himself with the zip ties —
Laughter
Ryan Fines: Yes!
Oskar Fey: It was so fun.
Eric Fey: And I was not watching him, and I turned around and his hands were turning blue a little bit, and so I had to cut the zip tie off of him.
Ryan Fines: Why?
Eric Fey: So don't leave kids unattended in the election warehouse.
Oskar Fey: I wanted to be funny, and I wanted to see how far the zip ties would go down without locking in. Well, I got it pretty far down before I could not undo it, and my hand started turning blue, and my father — who was not paying attention.
Eric Fey: I was doing my job, right? I was opening ballots.
Oskar Fey: No he wasn’t.
Ryan Fines: Parents — put your kids before your job.
Izzy Fines: I think Eric should put Oskar on his job so he can go rest.
Eric Fey: That's a great idea, Izzy.
Izzy Fines: And Oskar just does his work.
Ryan Fines: Except for the fact that he doesn’t have a basic understanding of calculus.
Oskar Fines: Except for the fact I don't have a basic understanding of any of the math you do there.
Ryan Fines: What kind of elections do you run?
Brianna Lennon: All different kinds.
Ryan Fines: Okay, then name a few.
Laughter
Eric Fey: Prove it.
[All]: yeah. Tell us what kind. Yeah!
Brianna Lennon: So, we’re right now in the middle of the April election, which is when people vote for who they're going to have on school board or their city council, or if there's, like, if the school needs some money to do some repairs to their building, they'll put something on the ballot to ask people if they support that idea. And then in August, we'll have elections where people are running for the legislature or county offices — and that's a primary, so they'll narrow that down.
Ryan Fines: Mom?
Brianna Lennon: And then November will be like the big election that people are used to going to voting in the November general election.
Ryan Fines: Would November be when you — when would you be on the ballot?
Brianna Lennon: I will be on the ballot in August and November. Eric never has to go on the ballot, did you know that?
Ryan Fines: Yeah, he counts the ballots.
Brianna Lennon: I also count the ballots.
Ryan Fines: He would know who voted for him.
Izzy Fines: I want him to be my daddy.
Oskar Fey: No one voted for him. No one voted for anyone else, so I guess dad got onto the ballot. The people forgot to vote. I think that there was a toxic waste accident, and many people turned into super villains and superheroes, and my dad was just there, and he was like, “Who's voting? Who's in the cafeteria voting?”
Eric Fey: Okay, Oskar, that's interesting insight. So, for Ryan and Izzy, I have a question for you.
Ryan Fines: Okay.
Eric Fey: Your mom is on the ballot this year, and then she says she counts the ballots. Do you think she's counting all the ballots for herself?
Ryan Fines: No.
Eric Fey: No?
Izzy Fines: I think —
Ryan Fines: No, I don't think she's that selfish.
Izzy Fines: I think — I don’t really know.
Eric Fey: Do you think she does it by herself or do you think she has people that help her with all that stuff?
Izzy Fines: I think she puts it in a wheelbarrow —
Eric Fey: A wheelbarrow! Okay.
Izzy Fines: — and then rolls it right over here,
Eric Fey: Okay.
Izzy Fines: — into this place, and then fills up the computers.
Ryan Fines: She goes and gets together with a bunch of people in a van, and goes to a special office or something.
Izzy Fines: Yeah because —
Ryan Fines: and then she counts the ballots and puts them back in the box. This is just from my understanding because I did, like, a mini election in preschool or whatever, and I counted the ballots, and what we did was we took it to a special, like, office place, and we just, we counted them all to see who got what. We tallied them down, and then we put them back in the box.
Eric Fey: Nice.
Brianna Lennon: That's accurate. Do you have any questions for Eric or me?
Izzy Fines: Yes please!
Brianna Lennon: What's your question?
Izzy Fines: Eric.
Eric Fey: Yes, ma’am?
Izzy Fines: How many elections do you run in one day?
Eric Fey: That's a great question. I try to keep it just to one election at a time.
Izzy Fines: But what if you have two elections in one day?
Eric Fey: Well, that's happened before. Sometimes we have that, and it just takes extra planning and extra work when you got more than one election at a time.
Oskar Fey: Dad? Wait. So technically, this doesn't count, this might not count, but what happens when you finish with one election and you're going to another election all in one day?
Eric Fey: Well, we try to do everything in the same place at the same time.
Oskar Fey: So, everything, one day, one place, one second.
Eric Fey: Yeah, we might just have to count two different sets of ballots, or something like that. That's pretty rare when that happens.
Ryan Fines: Do you tally the ballots down on paper and then count them and then put them in a computer?
Eric Fey: Yeah, that’s a good question. We, on election night — and your mom does it pretty much the same way — on election night, a computer counts the votes initially, but then you remember — everybody has filled out a ballot. Remember, sometimes you said, if you go with somebody to vote, they let you fill in a couple boxes or something or put the ballot in the box.
Ryan Fines: Yeah.
Eric Fey: So, after election day, then we have teams of people that take those ballots, and then they count them by hand to make sure the computer was right. So, we double check everything.
Ottilie Fey: Why did you choose the job you do now?
Eric Fey: Why did I choose the job I do now? That's a good question. I started doing it in college, and I really liked it, and I ended up getting the job doing this, in a way, after college, and now it's like all I know how to do, so that's why I keep doing it.
Oskar Fey: So, I have a question for dad. So, I've heard that you've seen a few “other,” like, when they're voting for president, they put “other” and they put some random name. Can you tell us about that?
Eric Fey: Yeah, so on ballots, there's a line for write-ins where sometimes people don't sign up to run for office in time to have their name printed on the ballot, so voters can just write their name on the ballot to get voted for, but sometimes people write stuff on the ballot just to be funny,
Oskar Fey: Like Big Chungus, Wolverine —
Eric Fey: Actually exactly that, yes. People have written that on the ballot. All kinds of stuff on the ballot. So, sometimes people like to try to be funny. Probably my favorite write-in was “Painfully Awkward Rob Lowe.” I thought that was pretty clever.
Oskar Fey: Wasn't there also baby Jesus?
Eric Fey: Yeah, somebody wrote like, “six pounds, seven ounce baby Jesus.”
Laughter
Eric Fey: We get a lot of interesting write-ins.
Oskar Fey: Yeah, so if you had to relate this job to another job — what job would that be?
Eric Fey: Ooh, good question. I think this job is a lot like being a wedding planner.
Brianna Lennon: I was gonna say that!
Eric Fey: You were gonna say that, too?
Brianna Lennon: I said that to a class last week. Maybe it's not wholly accurate, but it often feels like it's a lot of just planning a really big party.
Eric Fey: Yeah, that we have no idea who's gonna show up for.
Oskar Fey: What is like this and wedding planning?
Eric Fey: So, think about a wedding. You've been to a wedding?
Oskar Fey: Oh, yes, I've been to my aunt's wedding.
Eric Fey: Your aunt's wedding, yeah, and remember, like, all the stuff — so, there was food there. They had to find a place to have the wedding. Remember, we had to go to a rehearsal and, like, practice walking down the aisle.
Brianna Lennon: They need chairs.
Eric Fey: Yep.
Brianna Lennon: Chairs are really important to elections and weddings.
Eric Fey: Yep. They need to have people that work at the wedding. So, it's like that. We need to find people to work at the polling places. We need to find buildings to have the voting in. We need to make sure we have all the supplies, like, all the food and all the drinks. So, that would be like all the ballots and all the envelopes and all that kind of stuff. So, it has a lot of similarities.
Ryan Fines: Has the computer ever been wrong?
Brianna Lennon: That's a great question! No, but we check to make sure that it isn't because we can't just trust the computer.
Oskar Fey: Why do you check? Why do you have a computer when you can just check?
Brianna Lennon: Also a great question.
Ryan Fines: Humans are better.
Eric Fey: Yeah. So —
Ryan Fines; We don't want to let AI take over our world.
Eric Fey: Oskar —
Brianna Lennon: I agree with you.
Eric Fey: — on the presidential election, just in St Louis County, how many ballots do you think were cast?
Oskar Fey: 165.
Eric Fey: 165. So, we had 510,000 ballots cast at the presidential election. So, do you think on election night we would have time to check?
Oskar Fey: Hey, at least I was close.
Eric Fey: Yeah, very close.
Laughter
Eric Fey: Do you think we would have time to check all those ballots? That's why a computer counts them on election night, and then we go back and check the computer.
Izzy Fines: I have a question for both of you grown-ups.
Eric Fey: What is your question?
Izzy Fines: How much do you like your job?
Brianna Lennon: I like my job a lot, even if it doesn't seem like that sometimes.
Izzy Fines: Sometimes you come home, like, stressed.
Brianna Lennon: It is a stressful job, but it is a job that I really like because I get to work with people that I like.
Izzy Fines: Can Eric answer it now?
Brianna Lennon: Eric can answer it now.
Eric Fey: I like my job, too, Izzy. I like it because even though, probably to you guys, it might look a little boring just sitting behind this computer a lot of times — every day I go to the office, I never know what's going to happen. It's always something different. So, it's a challenge every day, and it's never the same thing.
Ryan Fines: Does this job require you to dive in over your head?
Brianna Lennon: What do you mean by that?
Ryan Fines: Like, does it require you to work extra hard —
Brianna Lennon: Yes.
Ryan Fines: — than like other jobs?
Brianna Lennon: So, I don't like to compare it to other jobs, but it does require —
Ryan Fines: But, like, does it, would it, does it overwork you?
Brianna Lennon: Well, election work — it doesn't overwork you. When you work in elections, you have to work with a lot of people that have a lot of different ideas and a lot of different interests, and you also have a lot of requirements that the laws require you to do, and so, sometimes, you don't have enough time during a regular day to get everything done, so you might have to work extra hours, or you might have to work on the weekend because you want to make sure people can vote and they might not have time during the week, so you open on the weekend instead. So, there's a lot more trying to take into account what's happening in the community, and that can lead to working extra hours.
Ottilie Fey: Since you guys travel a lot — does your job require, like maps?
Eric Fey: Since we travel a lot, does our job require maps? Our job requires maps, even if we don't travel. Maps are a big part of our job because we have to know, based on where people live, what they're supposed to vote on. So, do they live in this school district or in this precinct or in this state representative district? Because we have to make sure they get the right ballot to vote on. So, maps are a huge part of our job.
Brianna Lennon: Yeah, the maps change sometimes, and then you have to figure out, like, “Oh no! All these people are in a different place.” How do we make sure that they get the right ballot and then go to the right polling place? So, we work with maps all the time.
Oskar Fey: How do you organize your schedule? I can barely organize my schedule at school because one second I have to be here, the next second I have to be down here in the matter of four minutes. So, it gets kind of complicated at school. But how do you organize your schedule here? Because it seems a lot more complicated.
Eric Fey: Yeah.
Brianna Lennon: Calendars. There's a lot of calendars and you schedule things out way in advance sometimes.
Eric Fey: Just planning, but sometimes stuff pops up that you have to do last minute, and sometimes you're running around, and you only have four minutes to get somewhere too. But the more planning you can do, the easier that part is.
All right. So, hang on —
So, Ottie you got the sore throat today, but you've been very studious in writing your questions down. So, you've had one written down for a while, you want to go first?
Ottilie Fey: Do you make speeches?
Eric Fey: Do I make speeches?
Ottilie Fey: And talk to, like, on a big stage?
Eric Fey: Sometimes, yes, I have to make speeches and talk on a big stage to tell people about how the elections are going to work, or what they have to do to vote, or how elections have worked in the past, things like that. Sometimes I also have to talk to the news, you know, you've seen me on the news a few times, so that's — that's a part of my job, too. That's a great question, Ottie.
Ryan Fines: What skills besides a basic math understanding of college math, does being an election administrator involve?
Brianna Lennon: That's a really good question. It's really helpful to be organized. So, being detail oriented is important and or at least surrounding yourself with other people that are detail oriented. It's really helpful if you enjoy being able to, like, figure out how to work a process and then figure out how to make that process better. That's a good skill to have, too — process improvement.
Eric Fey: That is a great question, Ryan. I think, in addition to what your mom said, which was all correct – I think you have to be comfortable in public settings, talking to groups of people, talking to reporters, and, to some extent, have a thick skin because things happen and people might disagree with what you've done on occasion —
Ryan Fines: On occasion?
Eric Fey: — and you just gotta let that roll off your back sometimes.
Izzy Fines: What guests would you like to have on the podcast?
Brianna Lennon: I, you know, having all four of you on this podcast was, like, so much fun. I don't know if we can top it.
Eric Fey: All right, Oskar, you want to finish us up here?
Oskar Fey: Okay. So —
Ryan Fey: Dang it, I have another question.
Oskar Fey: — why should we stay [im]partial and not talk about why we, like, why shouldn't we go boasting around like, “Oh, so and so stinks,” or “Oh, so and so —”
Eric Fey: Well, I think I get the gist of your question, Oskar is — why should we not go around saying this person is better than the other one or something like that?
Oskar Fey: Yeah.
Eric Fey: In our jobs, even though we have our personal opinions about candidates and issues, in our jobs we have to help all the voters and all the people — no matter how they feel about candidates. That's why in our offices, we're not sitting there saying, “Hey, vote for this person or that person” because that wouldn't be fair to all the voters.
Brianna Lennon: You've been listening to High Turnout Wide Margins, a podcast that explores local elections administration. I'm your host, Brianna Lennon, alongside Eric Fey. A big thanks to KBIA and the Election Center for making this podcast possible. Our Managing Editor is Rebecca Smith. Managing producer is Aaron Hay. Our Associate Producer is Katie Quinn, and our Digital Producer is Mark Johnson. This has been High Turnout Wide Margins, thanks for listening.
Ryan Fines: High Turnout Wide Margins, going out!
